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Work-life balance: How 5 surgeons manage life in and out of the operating room
Patrick J. Culligan, MD:
My impression of our younger colleagues, however, is that many of them are not attracted to the traditional ivory tower research model of academic advancement to which many in previous generations aspired. They seem more concerned with work-life balance as their measure of success rather than the classic metrics of money and prestige. Everyone still needs role models and mentors, though, and that’s where all of you come in. I asked each of you to be on this panel because I admire you for your varying approaches to work-life balance while achieving success as gynecologic surgeons. I thought others in the field might be inspired by hearing your stories.
Cultivating your passions
Kristie Greene, MD: What I have come to learn and appreciate is a really simple point: you do not have to do everything. Determining who you want to be both personally and professionally is step 1.
Granted, answering the question, “Who do I want to be?” is not as simple as it sounds. Many factors figure into the decisions we make in our personal and professional lives. Also, it is not a question we often stop and ask ourselves. From early on, we are placed on an escalator moving up through medical school, residency, fellowship, good job, better job, etc. We are so accustomed to being competitive, to winning, and to wanting to be the best that we sometimes forget to ask ourselves, “What is it exactly that I want, and why? What is my endpoint? And does it make me happy?”
Multitasking is regarded as a talent. As much as we would like to believe that we can do everything at the same time and do it all well, we actually can’t. A friend of mine made me read a book a couple of years ago, called Feeling Good, by David Burns. The book encourages you to consider the different tasks you do in a day and rate how good you are at each of them on a scale of 1 to 10. It then asks you to think about how much enjoyment you derive from each of the tasks and about why you are doing the ones that bring you little to no enjoyment.
I ultimately decided that, for me professionally, the most important thing was my interest in global health. So I decided to do whatever it took to make this happen. But you don’t get something for nothing, and everything comes with sacrifices.
Continue to: Charles Rardin, MD...
Charles Rardin, MD: How exactly did you decide that you were going to focus your career toward pursuing international health? How did you know it was more important? And how did you overcome some of those obstacles?
Dr. Greene: You have to ask the hard question again about what brings you the most joy professionally and personally. That was the easy part of it for me because global health has always been that source of happiness and fulfillment for me. The more challenging parts are the sacrifices and hard choices that come with it. With global health, it can be difficult to balance the demands of a clinical practice.
All of our jobs are a business. I am still struggling with the money part of it. For my husband and I, that meant we had to start small—do what we could afford. But then it blossomed into something that was involving residents, fellows, and med students, which requires far more funding than we had. So I reached out to family. Most of our families donate to different organizations or charities every year, so why not donate to a loved one for something they are passionate about?
At the University of South Florida (USF), we set up a fund, a foundation for global health, which helps support our work abroad as well as the costs associated with involvement of our trainees. Right now, what we have is still small potatoes to a country, but we are making it happen by starting at a small level and growing it.
Beyond the money aspect, traveling abroad means less involvement in meetings, missed opportunities to teach courses that might interest me, and time away from my family. I guess my advice on this whole thing is that you can make things happen if they are important enough to you, and if you are willing to make sacrifices in other areas because you can’t have it all.
Making time for you
Dr. Culligan: So you have found what is important to you, and you have found a way to make it happen. But you are faced with more work; you have given yourself additional work on top of your regular work. How do you make time for a personal life?
Catherine Matthews, MD: In preparing for this discussion, I decided to break down my advice into 3 buckets: The first bucket is discovering and knowing your authentic self. The second is building a community, which I’ll elaborate on. And the third, which we have discussed, is to let go of the money.
Dr. Culligan: I love the concept of the authentic self, but how does that jive with a tendency to strive for perfection? We all think we can do it all. How do we narrow down to what really matters?
Dr. Matthews: We often focus on the things that bring us happiness and what we are good at, but it’s the things that make us unhappy that tend to bring us down. It’s the presence of unhappiness, not the absence of happiness, that seems to be the undoing of many, including myself.
None of us are born with dramatic insight. It is experience that leads to insight. People who are actually present are able to gain insight through observation. A person becomes a better surgeon by observing the outcome of doing a stitch this way versus that; you learn how to do it by seeing what it looks like afterward.
Finding our authentic selves happens in much the same way. Having the presence of mind to ask the right questions, such as, “How am I feeling while I’m doing this?” leads to insights into the true self.
Continue to: It takes a village...
It takes a village
Dr. Greene: Catherine mentioned community earlier, and that is extremely important. The people who surround us can have a huge impact on the way we perceive things, including ourselves. Having a mix of people in our lives—some who practice medicine and others who don’t—helps us stay balanced and answer some of the tough questions. Catherine, for example, has helped me in various stages of my career to ask myself meaningful questions and get real answers.
Dr. Rardin: Part of finding balance is luck, and part of it is making a choice between money and everything else. In considering my first job out of training, I knew that money had the potential to distract me from what was important to me. So I chose a position that was almost entirely salaried so that the decisions I made clinically, surgically, and regarding work-life balance would be less likely to directly impact what was important to me.
Sally Huber, MD: I am still in the “getting there” phase of my life, but one thing I have found is that getting my family involved and excited about what I do has made them much more accepting of when I have longer work days or work to do on the weekend. My spouse has become quite involved with what I have been doing with transgender health in Atlanta. It has been a great bonding experience; she shares my passions, and together we are creating something about which we both can be proud.
When work invades home life
Dr. Culligan: That is great. Sally, I think when we talked, you were just learning about the necessity of mental separation and of not taking your work home with you, which is so hard for all of us with all of our devices.
Dr. Huber: Yes, this year has been about seeing what works best as far as being efficient at work and having quality time at home. At the end of every day I ask myself, “What worked well today? What didn’t work well? What else can I do to maximize time with my family?” I am slowly becoming more efficient, but it has been a challenge. During fellowship, your day is pretty set, but once you are practicing on your own, your hours and responsibilities are completely different, and you have to figure out what works best for you, your values, and your expectations of private life. It takes some time, and I am still figuring it out.
Dr. Culligan: How often would you say that you bring work home? I try hard once I am home to quit working, but sometimes on the weekends I break that rule.
Dr. Matthews: I must say that I do feel like there are certain times when I am better at that than others. Work comes in waves with pressing deadlines. If I averaged it out, probably a third of the time I have some email or some conference call or something that I have got to do at home. I do really try to limit the obligations that I have after 5:30 or 6:00 pm. I resent intrusions after that time. As far as weekends, I delegate about one weekend every 2 months to work, instead of doing a little bit every weekend.
Dr. Greene: I agree. I try hard to make 5:30 to 7:30 pm unequivocal time for a family dinner and time for my kids. During that time, I do not have my phone near me so I can’t look at email or texts. I try not to schedule conference calls. I try to be there to read books to my kids at night. Then if I need to do work, I do it later at night, which interferes with time with my spouse, and is not ideal, but that’s what happens.
Dr. Matthews: One of the things that I think is a huge part of work-life balance is work-related travel. When you are present at work on a consistent basis, the work does not pile up to the extent that it does when you are absent on a trip. When you come back, you invariably pay the price by seeing more patients and doing more surgery. Then it becomes a stressful event.
My advice to young people is to be very thoughtful about planning trips, especially distant ones. You do not want to sit on a plane all day when you could be doing something more productive. If I could have done something differently in my mid-career, I would have traveled less.
Continue to: Prioritizing “out of office” time...
Prioritizing “out of office” time
Dr. Greene: How do you all mentally separate yourself from work, so that when you are on vacation with your family you are not thinking about the office, the patients, and all of the things on your to-do list?
Dr. Rardin: I don’t have a great answer for that except that it is about being present. You have to decide that now is the time when I am home, now is the time when I am a parent, now is the time when I am a boy scout leader, etc. I guess maybe it’s a skill, or maybe it’s about making something a priority. Work will always be waiting for you when you turn your attention back to it.
Dr. Matthews: Kristie, the answer to your question goes back to community. Partners in a practice cover for each other. You have to trust them to take care of things so that you can relax during your time away.
Some people recommend not scheduling challenging cases right before going away because invariably something goes wrong, and then you are asking, “Why did I schedule 3 colpopexies before getting on a plane?”
Dr. Rardin: Yes, I completely agree with all of that. Personally, I feel fortunate that I can compartmentalize pretty well. When I am home with my kids, I allow myself to shed some of the doctor/surgeon/leadership persona; I am able to be goofy and completely non–doctor-like. It works to help me leave work behind.
Dr. Matthews: Other things you can do include setting up an out-of-office notice on your email that says when you will be back and what to do in case of urgent matters. This basically says to the world, “Don’t expect to hear from me until X date.” It removes the expectation that you will respond sooner. Otherwise, we would all be on our smartphones all the time and not enjoying our time away.
What I wish I knew then
Dr. Culligan: How would you complete the sentence, “I wish they had told me X when I was embarking on my career?”
Dr. Rardin: I keep coming back to the phrase, “Don’t do anything that you can reasonably pay someone else to do.” By that I mean, if you don’t get energy from housework, consider spending some of your money to get help with the housework. Resolve to make a relatively small expenditure to maximize the quality of the time that you give to yourself and your family. Those are the sorts of things that I think can go a long way.
Dr. Culligan: Charley, your wife is an ObGyn. How do you navigate a dual medical career household? What advice do you have for others?
Dr. Rardin: When I was going into fellowship, we had a conversation about how hard it is for both people in a relationship to have an academic fire in the belly and to be truly engaged in climbing the academic ladder. We made a decision that Jane would go into private practice. There has got to be some give and take in a dual medical relationship; a lot of sacrifices and compromises need to happen. We are fortunate in that there are complementary aspects to our jobs. We both spend about the same number of nights away from the house, but my travel is more in chunks and hers is overnight calls for labor and delivery. We have different ways of (briefly) single-parenting, and you have to come up with ways to handle the domestic chores.
Dr. Matthews: I wish someone had explained to me that the people you work with are much more important than the place. The human connection is what defines your experience, much more than any ego-driven outcome.
Dr. Greene: I wish someone had explained to me the competing aspects of academic medicine. The cards are stacked in a way that make it difficult for you to win. For example, you may love to teach and may be really good at it, but if you let your students handle too many cases, your relative value units plummet and then the hospital is on your back. There are the interests of people, and there are the interests of the business. Everything is a balance, and it’s really tricky.
Dr. Huber: Luckily, Pat counselled me as I was finishing my fellowship about the importance of negotiating a good contract, of being pushy and knowing what you want out of it and knowing what your limitations are. I joined a private practice that had 3 different physical locations. If I had to drive to all of them, as they wanted, it would have meant up to a one-and-a-half-hour commute. But I pushed to stay in one location and to put that extra hour to better use. I am glad I did, but it was terrifying at the time because I didn’t want to lose the offer. I know people that did not do that and took the first thing they got. Now, they are driving all over the place or they have these crazy hours or terrible call responsibilities that if they had just been a little firmer, they probably could have gotten out of. As they start trying to find work-life balance, they are already handicapped.
Continue to: Passions outside the office...
Passions outside the office
Dr. Culligan: One thing I would like to touch on is what is going on in each of your personal lives because all of you have interesting stories to tell outside of what you do professionally. What drives you other than medicine?
Dr. Rardin: I am the father of 3 boys. The oldest one just got his Eagle Scout rank yesterday in Boy Scouts. I would be a woodworker if I wasn’t in medicine. I am a Deacon at church. And I love to spend my downtime reading with my family in front of the fireplace.
Dr. Matthews: For me, it’s music. When my husband and I first met, he asked me if I played a musical instrument. I said I played the cello in primary school. He said, “Great, go rent a cello.” I was never at all interested in playing the cello by myself, but because he plays guitar and piano we became able to play a lot of music together. Our son, Alexander, plays drums. We now have a family band.
In addition, I do yoga. I would never have labeled myself an anxious person, but I learned through this process that I am and need to manage it. It took a lot of years to figure that out. If I don’t leave myself an hour each day to go to a yoga class, I am not a happy person and neither is anyone around me. Also, I get tremendous pleasure from reading books and magazines as opposed to watching a screen.
Dr. Greene: I have found that my passions outside of work often change depending on my stage of life. Right now, I have two young babies and so my life outside of work revolves around them. Before the babies, my dad, who lives in Buffalo, was ill. So for awhile, we were flying to Buffalo almost every weekend that I was not on call. I would say, in general what fuels me is connecting with the people I love as often as I can. A typical night involves me and my husband going for a walk with our kids and dog after dinner and talking to each other. We connect with neighbors and chat on the front porch. It doesn’t really matter what we are doing; it is about being surrounded by people who matter.
Dr. Huber: It’s similar for me. Having a child completely shifts your world view. My goal every day is to give my daughter her first feeding in the morning and to get home as soon as possible at the end of the day to do her last feeding and put her to sleep. She crawled for the first time yesterday, and I was so excited that I could be there for that.
Also, I love being outdoors. I love hiking and camping. Going on a hike and being outside with nature is my way of decompressing.
Continue to: Thinking about upcoming generations...
Thinking about upcoming generations
Dr. Matthews: One other thing I would like to propose is looking at what can we do to make the profession better for the next generation. As a group, our profession is somewhat inflexible. We tend to fall into the trap of, “since this is the way we have always done it this is how we should continue doing it.” The OR still starts at 7:00 or 7:30 am, ignoring the need for school drop-offs, etc. We are not innovative about flexibility in the work week. Honestly, it does not work well for many people, patients and physicians alike. Flexible scheduling should be something that is on the table for both men and women who are trying to balance being full-time parents and full-time surgeons. We need to create an environment in which it is okay for you to spend 10 years instead of 6 as an assistant professor because you are also a young parent, and it will not count against you when you come up for promotion.
Dr. Culligan: I agree with you, Catherine. Full “Professor” is a nice title, but it means time away from family and a lot of other things. Each of us has to decide whether it is worth it, especially since it often does not come with any extra money.
Dr. Huber: A question on a recent survey of residents asked, “Do you see yourself going into private practice or academic medicine when you’ve completed your residency?” When I was a resident, everyone wanted to go into academic medicine, but now it seems like more and more residents have their sights set on private practice because that is where they see the opportunities to create work-life balance.
In the academic world, you have to try to get a promotion in X number of years, and get X number of publications, and be a great teacher, doctor, and administrator all at the same time. I am wondering if we are going to start seeing more and more residents and fellows going into private or hospital-owned practice where there aren’t those added expectations.
Dr. Rardin: I agree, and we are back to what we said in the beginning about doing an honest assessment of what is meaningful and important. We are all trained to try to reach for that shiny brass ring, but do we really want that brass ring? Will it be an asset or a hindrance once we get it? It is okay to be honest and say, “I really don’t want that promotion. I would rather spend more time with my family.” ●
Patrick J. Culligan, MD:
My impression of our younger colleagues, however, is that many of them are not attracted to the traditional ivory tower research model of academic advancement to which many in previous generations aspired. They seem more concerned with work-life balance as their measure of success rather than the classic metrics of money and prestige. Everyone still needs role models and mentors, though, and that’s where all of you come in. I asked each of you to be on this panel because I admire you for your varying approaches to work-life balance while achieving success as gynecologic surgeons. I thought others in the field might be inspired by hearing your stories.
Cultivating your passions
Kristie Greene, MD: What I have come to learn and appreciate is a really simple point: you do not have to do everything. Determining who you want to be both personally and professionally is step 1.
Granted, answering the question, “Who do I want to be?” is not as simple as it sounds. Many factors figure into the decisions we make in our personal and professional lives. Also, it is not a question we often stop and ask ourselves. From early on, we are placed on an escalator moving up through medical school, residency, fellowship, good job, better job, etc. We are so accustomed to being competitive, to winning, and to wanting to be the best that we sometimes forget to ask ourselves, “What is it exactly that I want, and why? What is my endpoint? And does it make me happy?”
Multitasking is regarded as a talent. As much as we would like to believe that we can do everything at the same time and do it all well, we actually can’t. A friend of mine made me read a book a couple of years ago, called Feeling Good, by David Burns. The book encourages you to consider the different tasks you do in a day and rate how good you are at each of them on a scale of 1 to 10. It then asks you to think about how much enjoyment you derive from each of the tasks and about why you are doing the ones that bring you little to no enjoyment.
I ultimately decided that, for me professionally, the most important thing was my interest in global health. So I decided to do whatever it took to make this happen. But you don’t get something for nothing, and everything comes with sacrifices.
Continue to: Charles Rardin, MD...
Charles Rardin, MD: How exactly did you decide that you were going to focus your career toward pursuing international health? How did you know it was more important? And how did you overcome some of those obstacles?
Dr. Greene: You have to ask the hard question again about what brings you the most joy professionally and personally. That was the easy part of it for me because global health has always been that source of happiness and fulfillment for me. The more challenging parts are the sacrifices and hard choices that come with it. With global health, it can be difficult to balance the demands of a clinical practice.
All of our jobs are a business. I am still struggling with the money part of it. For my husband and I, that meant we had to start small—do what we could afford. But then it blossomed into something that was involving residents, fellows, and med students, which requires far more funding than we had. So I reached out to family. Most of our families donate to different organizations or charities every year, so why not donate to a loved one for something they are passionate about?
At the University of South Florida (USF), we set up a fund, a foundation for global health, which helps support our work abroad as well as the costs associated with involvement of our trainees. Right now, what we have is still small potatoes to a country, but we are making it happen by starting at a small level and growing it.
Beyond the money aspect, traveling abroad means less involvement in meetings, missed opportunities to teach courses that might interest me, and time away from my family. I guess my advice on this whole thing is that you can make things happen if they are important enough to you, and if you are willing to make sacrifices in other areas because you can’t have it all.
Making time for you
Dr. Culligan: So you have found what is important to you, and you have found a way to make it happen. But you are faced with more work; you have given yourself additional work on top of your regular work. How do you make time for a personal life?
Catherine Matthews, MD: In preparing for this discussion, I decided to break down my advice into 3 buckets: The first bucket is discovering and knowing your authentic self. The second is building a community, which I’ll elaborate on. And the third, which we have discussed, is to let go of the money.
Dr. Culligan: I love the concept of the authentic self, but how does that jive with a tendency to strive for perfection? We all think we can do it all. How do we narrow down to what really matters?
Dr. Matthews: We often focus on the things that bring us happiness and what we are good at, but it’s the things that make us unhappy that tend to bring us down. It’s the presence of unhappiness, not the absence of happiness, that seems to be the undoing of many, including myself.
None of us are born with dramatic insight. It is experience that leads to insight. People who are actually present are able to gain insight through observation. A person becomes a better surgeon by observing the outcome of doing a stitch this way versus that; you learn how to do it by seeing what it looks like afterward.
Finding our authentic selves happens in much the same way. Having the presence of mind to ask the right questions, such as, “How am I feeling while I’m doing this?” leads to insights into the true self.
Continue to: It takes a village...
It takes a village
Dr. Greene: Catherine mentioned community earlier, and that is extremely important. The people who surround us can have a huge impact on the way we perceive things, including ourselves. Having a mix of people in our lives—some who practice medicine and others who don’t—helps us stay balanced and answer some of the tough questions. Catherine, for example, has helped me in various stages of my career to ask myself meaningful questions and get real answers.
Dr. Rardin: Part of finding balance is luck, and part of it is making a choice between money and everything else. In considering my first job out of training, I knew that money had the potential to distract me from what was important to me. So I chose a position that was almost entirely salaried so that the decisions I made clinically, surgically, and regarding work-life balance would be less likely to directly impact what was important to me.
Sally Huber, MD: I am still in the “getting there” phase of my life, but one thing I have found is that getting my family involved and excited about what I do has made them much more accepting of when I have longer work days or work to do on the weekend. My spouse has become quite involved with what I have been doing with transgender health in Atlanta. It has been a great bonding experience; she shares my passions, and together we are creating something about which we both can be proud.
When work invades home life
Dr. Culligan: That is great. Sally, I think when we talked, you were just learning about the necessity of mental separation and of not taking your work home with you, which is so hard for all of us with all of our devices.
Dr. Huber: Yes, this year has been about seeing what works best as far as being efficient at work and having quality time at home. At the end of every day I ask myself, “What worked well today? What didn’t work well? What else can I do to maximize time with my family?” I am slowly becoming more efficient, but it has been a challenge. During fellowship, your day is pretty set, but once you are practicing on your own, your hours and responsibilities are completely different, and you have to figure out what works best for you, your values, and your expectations of private life. It takes some time, and I am still figuring it out.
Dr. Culligan: How often would you say that you bring work home? I try hard once I am home to quit working, but sometimes on the weekends I break that rule.
Dr. Matthews: I must say that I do feel like there are certain times when I am better at that than others. Work comes in waves with pressing deadlines. If I averaged it out, probably a third of the time I have some email or some conference call or something that I have got to do at home. I do really try to limit the obligations that I have after 5:30 or 6:00 pm. I resent intrusions after that time. As far as weekends, I delegate about one weekend every 2 months to work, instead of doing a little bit every weekend.
Dr. Greene: I agree. I try hard to make 5:30 to 7:30 pm unequivocal time for a family dinner and time for my kids. During that time, I do not have my phone near me so I can’t look at email or texts. I try not to schedule conference calls. I try to be there to read books to my kids at night. Then if I need to do work, I do it later at night, which interferes with time with my spouse, and is not ideal, but that’s what happens.
Dr. Matthews: One of the things that I think is a huge part of work-life balance is work-related travel. When you are present at work on a consistent basis, the work does not pile up to the extent that it does when you are absent on a trip. When you come back, you invariably pay the price by seeing more patients and doing more surgery. Then it becomes a stressful event.
My advice to young people is to be very thoughtful about planning trips, especially distant ones. You do not want to sit on a plane all day when you could be doing something more productive. If I could have done something differently in my mid-career, I would have traveled less.
Continue to: Prioritizing “out of office” time...
Prioritizing “out of office” time
Dr. Greene: How do you all mentally separate yourself from work, so that when you are on vacation with your family you are not thinking about the office, the patients, and all of the things on your to-do list?
Dr. Rardin: I don’t have a great answer for that except that it is about being present. You have to decide that now is the time when I am home, now is the time when I am a parent, now is the time when I am a boy scout leader, etc. I guess maybe it’s a skill, or maybe it’s about making something a priority. Work will always be waiting for you when you turn your attention back to it.
Dr. Matthews: Kristie, the answer to your question goes back to community. Partners in a practice cover for each other. You have to trust them to take care of things so that you can relax during your time away.
Some people recommend not scheduling challenging cases right before going away because invariably something goes wrong, and then you are asking, “Why did I schedule 3 colpopexies before getting on a plane?”
Dr. Rardin: Yes, I completely agree with all of that. Personally, I feel fortunate that I can compartmentalize pretty well. When I am home with my kids, I allow myself to shed some of the doctor/surgeon/leadership persona; I am able to be goofy and completely non–doctor-like. It works to help me leave work behind.
Dr. Matthews: Other things you can do include setting up an out-of-office notice on your email that says when you will be back and what to do in case of urgent matters. This basically says to the world, “Don’t expect to hear from me until X date.” It removes the expectation that you will respond sooner. Otherwise, we would all be on our smartphones all the time and not enjoying our time away.
What I wish I knew then
Dr. Culligan: How would you complete the sentence, “I wish they had told me X when I was embarking on my career?”
Dr. Rardin: I keep coming back to the phrase, “Don’t do anything that you can reasonably pay someone else to do.” By that I mean, if you don’t get energy from housework, consider spending some of your money to get help with the housework. Resolve to make a relatively small expenditure to maximize the quality of the time that you give to yourself and your family. Those are the sorts of things that I think can go a long way.
Dr. Culligan: Charley, your wife is an ObGyn. How do you navigate a dual medical career household? What advice do you have for others?
Dr. Rardin: When I was going into fellowship, we had a conversation about how hard it is for both people in a relationship to have an academic fire in the belly and to be truly engaged in climbing the academic ladder. We made a decision that Jane would go into private practice. There has got to be some give and take in a dual medical relationship; a lot of sacrifices and compromises need to happen. We are fortunate in that there are complementary aspects to our jobs. We both spend about the same number of nights away from the house, but my travel is more in chunks and hers is overnight calls for labor and delivery. We have different ways of (briefly) single-parenting, and you have to come up with ways to handle the domestic chores.
Dr. Matthews: I wish someone had explained to me that the people you work with are much more important than the place. The human connection is what defines your experience, much more than any ego-driven outcome.
Dr. Greene: I wish someone had explained to me the competing aspects of academic medicine. The cards are stacked in a way that make it difficult for you to win. For example, you may love to teach and may be really good at it, but if you let your students handle too many cases, your relative value units plummet and then the hospital is on your back. There are the interests of people, and there are the interests of the business. Everything is a balance, and it’s really tricky.
Dr. Huber: Luckily, Pat counselled me as I was finishing my fellowship about the importance of negotiating a good contract, of being pushy and knowing what you want out of it and knowing what your limitations are. I joined a private practice that had 3 different physical locations. If I had to drive to all of them, as they wanted, it would have meant up to a one-and-a-half-hour commute. But I pushed to stay in one location and to put that extra hour to better use. I am glad I did, but it was terrifying at the time because I didn’t want to lose the offer. I know people that did not do that and took the first thing they got. Now, they are driving all over the place or they have these crazy hours or terrible call responsibilities that if they had just been a little firmer, they probably could have gotten out of. As they start trying to find work-life balance, they are already handicapped.
Continue to: Passions outside the office...
Passions outside the office
Dr. Culligan: One thing I would like to touch on is what is going on in each of your personal lives because all of you have interesting stories to tell outside of what you do professionally. What drives you other than medicine?
Dr. Rardin: I am the father of 3 boys. The oldest one just got his Eagle Scout rank yesterday in Boy Scouts. I would be a woodworker if I wasn’t in medicine. I am a Deacon at church. And I love to spend my downtime reading with my family in front of the fireplace.
Dr. Matthews: For me, it’s music. When my husband and I first met, he asked me if I played a musical instrument. I said I played the cello in primary school. He said, “Great, go rent a cello.” I was never at all interested in playing the cello by myself, but because he plays guitar and piano we became able to play a lot of music together. Our son, Alexander, plays drums. We now have a family band.
In addition, I do yoga. I would never have labeled myself an anxious person, but I learned through this process that I am and need to manage it. It took a lot of years to figure that out. If I don’t leave myself an hour each day to go to a yoga class, I am not a happy person and neither is anyone around me. Also, I get tremendous pleasure from reading books and magazines as opposed to watching a screen.
Dr. Greene: I have found that my passions outside of work often change depending on my stage of life. Right now, I have two young babies and so my life outside of work revolves around them. Before the babies, my dad, who lives in Buffalo, was ill. So for awhile, we were flying to Buffalo almost every weekend that I was not on call. I would say, in general what fuels me is connecting with the people I love as often as I can. A typical night involves me and my husband going for a walk with our kids and dog after dinner and talking to each other. We connect with neighbors and chat on the front porch. It doesn’t really matter what we are doing; it is about being surrounded by people who matter.
Dr. Huber: It’s similar for me. Having a child completely shifts your world view. My goal every day is to give my daughter her first feeding in the morning and to get home as soon as possible at the end of the day to do her last feeding and put her to sleep. She crawled for the first time yesterday, and I was so excited that I could be there for that.
Also, I love being outdoors. I love hiking and camping. Going on a hike and being outside with nature is my way of decompressing.
Continue to: Thinking about upcoming generations...
Thinking about upcoming generations
Dr. Matthews: One other thing I would like to propose is looking at what can we do to make the profession better for the next generation. As a group, our profession is somewhat inflexible. We tend to fall into the trap of, “since this is the way we have always done it this is how we should continue doing it.” The OR still starts at 7:00 or 7:30 am, ignoring the need for school drop-offs, etc. We are not innovative about flexibility in the work week. Honestly, it does not work well for many people, patients and physicians alike. Flexible scheduling should be something that is on the table for both men and women who are trying to balance being full-time parents and full-time surgeons. We need to create an environment in which it is okay for you to spend 10 years instead of 6 as an assistant professor because you are also a young parent, and it will not count against you when you come up for promotion.
Dr. Culligan: I agree with you, Catherine. Full “Professor” is a nice title, but it means time away from family and a lot of other things. Each of us has to decide whether it is worth it, especially since it often does not come with any extra money.
Dr. Huber: A question on a recent survey of residents asked, “Do you see yourself going into private practice or academic medicine when you’ve completed your residency?” When I was a resident, everyone wanted to go into academic medicine, but now it seems like more and more residents have their sights set on private practice because that is where they see the opportunities to create work-life balance.
In the academic world, you have to try to get a promotion in X number of years, and get X number of publications, and be a great teacher, doctor, and administrator all at the same time. I am wondering if we are going to start seeing more and more residents and fellows going into private or hospital-owned practice where there aren’t those added expectations.
Dr. Rardin: I agree, and we are back to what we said in the beginning about doing an honest assessment of what is meaningful and important. We are all trained to try to reach for that shiny brass ring, but do we really want that brass ring? Will it be an asset or a hindrance once we get it? It is okay to be honest and say, “I really don’t want that promotion. I would rather spend more time with my family.” ●
Patrick J. Culligan, MD:
My impression of our younger colleagues, however, is that many of them are not attracted to the traditional ivory tower research model of academic advancement to which many in previous generations aspired. They seem more concerned with work-life balance as their measure of success rather than the classic metrics of money and prestige. Everyone still needs role models and mentors, though, and that’s where all of you come in. I asked each of you to be on this panel because I admire you for your varying approaches to work-life balance while achieving success as gynecologic surgeons. I thought others in the field might be inspired by hearing your stories.
Cultivating your passions
Kristie Greene, MD: What I have come to learn and appreciate is a really simple point: you do not have to do everything. Determining who you want to be both personally and professionally is step 1.
Granted, answering the question, “Who do I want to be?” is not as simple as it sounds. Many factors figure into the decisions we make in our personal and professional lives. Also, it is not a question we often stop and ask ourselves. From early on, we are placed on an escalator moving up through medical school, residency, fellowship, good job, better job, etc. We are so accustomed to being competitive, to winning, and to wanting to be the best that we sometimes forget to ask ourselves, “What is it exactly that I want, and why? What is my endpoint? And does it make me happy?”
Multitasking is regarded as a talent. As much as we would like to believe that we can do everything at the same time and do it all well, we actually can’t. A friend of mine made me read a book a couple of years ago, called Feeling Good, by David Burns. The book encourages you to consider the different tasks you do in a day and rate how good you are at each of them on a scale of 1 to 10. It then asks you to think about how much enjoyment you derive from each of the tasks and about why you are doing the ones that bring you little to no enjoyment.
I ultimately decided that, for me professionally, the most important thing was my interest in global health. So I decided to do whatever it took to make this happen. But you don’t get something for nothing, and everything comes with sacrifices.
Continue to: Charles Rardin, MD...
Charles Rardin, MD: How exactly did you decide that you were going to focus your career toward pursuing international health? How did you know it was more important? And how did you overcome some of those obstacles?
Dr. Greene: You have to ask the hard question again about what brings you the most joy professionally and personally. That was the easy part of it for me because global health has always been that source of happiness and fulfillment for me. The more challenging parts are the sacrifices and hard choices that come with it. With global health, it can be difficult to balance the demands of a clinical practice.
All of our jobs are a business. I am still struggling with the money part of it. For my husband and I, that meant we had to start small—do what we could afford. But then it blossomed into something that was involving residents, fellows, and med students, which requires far more funding than we had. So I reached out to family. Most of our families donate to different organizations or charities every year, so why not donate to a loved one for something they are passionate about?
At the University of South Florida (USF), we set up a fund, a foundation for global health, which helps support our work abroad as well as the costs associated with involvement of our trainees. Right now, what we have is still small potatoes to a country, but we are making it happen by starting at a small level and growing it.
Beyond the money aspect, traveling abroad means less involvement in meetings, missed opportunities to teach courses that might interest me, and time away from my family. I guess my advice on this whole thing is that you can make things happen if they are important enough to you, and if you are willing to make sacrifices in other areas because you can’t have it all.
Making time for you
Dr. Culligan: So you have found what is important to you, and you have found a way to make it happen. But you are faced with more work; you have given yourself additional work on top of your regular work. How do you make time for a personal life?
Catherine Matthews, MD: In preparing for this discussion, I decided to break down my advice into 3 buckets: The first bucket is discovering and knowing your authentic self. The second is building a community, which I’ll elaborate on. And the third, which we have discussed, is to let go of the money.
Dr. Culligan: I love the concept of the authentic self, but how does that jive with a tendency to strive for perfection? We all think we can do it all. How do we narrow down to what really matters?
Dr. Matthews: We often focus on the things that bring us happiness and what we are good at, but it’s the things that make us unhappy that tend to bring us down. It’s the presence of unhappiness, not the absence of happiness, that seems to be the undoing of many, including myself.
None of us are born with dramatic insight. It is experience that leads to insight. People who are actually present are able to gain insight through observation. A person becomes a better surgeon by observing the outcome of doing a stitch this way versus that; you learn how to do it by seeing what it looks like afterward.
Finding our authentic selves happens in much the same way. Having the presence of mind to ask the right questions, such as, “How am I feeling while I’m doing this?” leads to insights into the true self.
Continue to: It takes a village...
It takes a village
Dr. Greene: Catherine mentioned community earlier, and that is extremely important. The people who surround us can have a huge impact on the way we perceive things, including ourselves. Having a mix of people in our lives—some who practice medicine and others who don’t—helps us stay balanced and answer some of the tough questions. Catherine, for example, has helped me in various stages of my career to ask myself meaningful questions and get real answers.
Dr. Rardin: Part of finding balance is luck, and part of it is making a choice between money and everything else. In considering my first job out of training, I knew that money had the potential to distract me from what was important to me. So I chose a position that was almost entirely salaried so that the decisions I made clinically, surgically, and regarding work-life balance would be less likely to directly impact what was important to me.
Sally Huber, MD: I am still in the “getting there” phase of my life, but one thing I have found is that getting my family involved and excited about what I do has made them much more accepting of when I have longer work days or work to do on the weekend. My spouse has become quite involved with what I have been doing with transgender health in Atlanta. It has been a great bonding experience; she shares my passions, and together we are creating something about which we both can be proud.
When work invades home life
Dr. Culligan: That is great. Sally, I think when we talked, you were just learning about the necessity of mental separation and of not taking your work home with you, which is so hard for all of us with all of our devices.
Dr. Huber: Yes, this year has been about seeing what works best as far as being efficient at work and having quality time at home. At the end of every day I ask myself, “What worked well today? What didn’t work well? What else can I do to maximize time with my family?” I am slowly becoming more efficient, but it has been a challenge. During fellowship, your day is pretty set, but once you are practicing on your own, your hours and responsibilities are completely different, and you have to figure out what works best for you, your values, and your expectations of private life. It takes some time, and I am still figuring it out.
Dr. Culligan: How often would you say that you bring work home? I try hard once I am home to quit working, but sometimes on the weekends I break that rule.
Dr. Matthews: I must say that I do feel like there are certain times when I am better at that than others. Work comes in waves with pressing deadlines. If I averaged it out, probably a third of the time I have some email or some conference call or something that I have got to do at home. I do really try to limit the obligations that I have after 5:30 or 6:00 pm. I resent intrusions after that time. As far as weekends, I delegate about one weekend every 2 months to work, instead of doing a little bit every weekend.
Dr. Greene: I agree. I try hard to make 5:30 to 7:30 pm unequivocal time for a family dinner and time for my kids. During that time, I do not have my phone near me so I can’t look at email or texts. I try not to schedule conference calls. I try to be there to read books to my kids at night. Then if I need to do work, I do it later at night, which interferes with time with my spouse, and is not ideal, but that’s what happens.
Dr. Matthews: One of the things that I think is a huge part of work-life balance is work-related travel. When you are present at work on a consistent basis, the work does not pile up to the extent that it does when you are absent on a trip. When you come back, you invariably pay the price by seeing more patients and doing more surgery. Then it becomes a stressful event.
My advice to young people is to be very thoughtful about planning trips, especially distant ones. You do not want to sit on a plane all day when you could be doing something more productive. If I could have done something differently in my mid-career, I would have traveled less.
Continue to: Prioritizing “out of office” time...
Prioritizing “out of office” time
Dr. Greene: How do you all mentally separate yourself from work, so that when you are on vacation with your family you are not thinking about the office, the patients, and all of the things on your to-do list?
Dr. Rardin: I don’t have a great answer for that except that it is about being present. You have to decide that now is the time when I am home, now is the time when I am a parent, now is the time when I am a boy scout leader, etc. I guess maybe it’s a skill, or maybe it’s about making something a priority. Work will always be waiting for you when you turn your attention back to it.
Dr. Matthews: Kristie, the answer to your question goes back to community. Partners in a practice cover for each other. You have to trust them to take care of things so that you can relax during your time away.
Some people recommend not scheduling challenging cases right before going away because invariably something goes wrong, and then you are asking, “Why did I schedule 3 colpopexies before getting on a plane?”
Dr. Rardin: Yes, I completely agree with all of that. Personally, I feel fortunate that I can compartmentalize pretty well. When I am home with my kids, I allow myself to shed some of the doctor/surgeon/leadership persona; I am able to be goofy and completely non–doctor-like. It works to help me leave work behind.
Dr. Matthews: Other things you can do include setting up an out-of-office notice on your email that says when you will be back and what to do in case of urgent matters. This basically says to the world, “Don’t expect to hear from me until X date.” It removes the expectation that you will respond sooner. Otherwise, we would all be on our smartphones all the time and not enjoying our time away.
What I wish I knew then
Dr. Culligan: How would you complete the sentence, “I wish they had told me X when I was embarking on my career?”
Dr. Rardin: I keep coming back to the phrase, “Don’t do anything that you can reasonably pay someone else to do.” By that I mean, if you don’t get energy from housework, consider spending some of your money to get help with the housework. Resolve to make a relatively small expenditure to maximize the quality of the time that you give to yourself and your family. Those are the sorts of things that I think can go a long way.
Dr. Culligan: Charley, your wife is an ObGyn. How do you navigate a dual medical career household? What advice do you have for others?
Dr. Rardin: When I was going into fellowship, we had a conversation about how hard it is for both people in a relationship to have an academic fire in the belly and to be truly engaged in climbing the academic ladder. We made a decision that Jane would go into private practice. There has got to be some give and take in a dual medical relationship; a lot of sacrifices and compromises need to happen. We are fortunate in that there are complementary aspects to our jobs. We both spend about the same number of nights away from the house, but my travel is more in chunks and hers is overnight calls for labor and delivery. We have different ways of (briefly) single-parenting, and you have to come up with ways to handle the domestic chores.
Dr. Matthews: I wish someone had explained to me that the people you work with are much more important than the place. The human connection is what defines your experience, much more than any ego-driven outcome.
Dr. Greene: I wish someone had explained to me the competing aspects of academic medicine. The cards are stacked in a way that make it difficult for you to win. For example, you may love to teach and may be really good at it, but if you let your students handle too many cases, your relative value units plummet and then the hospital is on your back. There are the interests of people, and there are the interests of the business. Everything is a balance, and it’s really tricky.
Dr. Huber: Luckily, Pat counselled me as I was finishing my fellowship about the importance of negotiating a good contract, of being pushy and knowing what you want out of it and knowing what your limitations are. I joined a private practice that had 3 different physical locations. If I had to drive to all of them, as they wanted, it would have meant up to a one-and-a-half-hour commute. But I pushed to stay in one location and to put that extra hour to better use. I am glad I did, but it was terrifying at the time because I didn’t want to lose the offer. I know people that did not do that and took the first thing they got. Now, they are driving all over the place or they have these crazy hours or terrible call responsibilities that if they had just been a little firmer, they probably could have gotten out of. As they start trying to find work-life balance, they are already handicapped.
Continue to: Passions outside the office...
Passions outside the office
Dr. Culligan: One thing I would like to touch on is what is going on in each of your personal lives because all of you have interesting stories to tell outside of what you do professionally. What drives you other than medicine?
Dr. Rardin: I am the father of 3 boys. The oldest one just got his Eagle Scout rank yesterday in Boy Scouts. I would be a woodworker if I wasn’t in medicine. I am a Deacon at church. And I love to spend my downtime reading with my family in front of the fireplace.
Dr. Matthews: For me, it’s music. When my husband and I first met, he asked me if I played a musical instrument. I said I played the cello in primary school. He said, “Great, go rent a cello.” I was never at all interested in playing the cello by myself, but because he plays guitar and piano we became able to play a lot of music together. Our son, Alexander, plays drums. We now have a family band.
In addition, I do yoga. I would never have labeled myself an anxious person, but I learned through this process that I am and need to manage it. It took a lot of years to figure that out. If I don’t leave myself an hour each day to go to a yoga class, I am not a happy person and neither is anyone around me. Also, I get tremendous pleasure from reading books and magazines as opposed to watching a screen.
Dr. Greene: I have found that my passions outside of work often change depending on my stage of life. Right now, I have two young babies and so my life outside of work revolves around them. Before the babies, my dad, who lives in Buffalo, was ill. So for awhile, we were flying to Buffalo almost every weekend that I was not on call. I would say, in general what fuels me is connecting with the people I love as often as I can. A typical night involves me and my husband going for a walk with our kids and dog after dinner and talking to each other. We connect with neighbors and chat on the front porch. It doesn’t really matter what we are doing; it is about being surrounded by people who matter.
Dr. Huber: It’s similar for me. Having a child completely shifts your world view. My goal every day is to give my daughter her first feeding in the morning and to get home as soon as possible at the end of the day to do her last feeding and put her to sleep. She crawled for the first time yesterday, and I was so excited that I could be there for that.
Also, I love being outdoors. I love hiking and camping. Going on a hike and being outside with nature is my way of decompressing.
Continue to: Thinking about upcoming generations...
Thinking about upcoming generations
Dr. Matthews: One other thing I would like to propose is looking at what can we do to make the profession better for the next generation. As a group, our profession is somewhat inflexible. We tend to fall into the trap of, “since this is the way we have always done it this is how we should continue doing it.” The OR still starts at 7:00 or 7:30 am, ignoring the need for school drop-offs, etc. We are not innovative about flexibility in the work week. Honestly, it does not work well for many people, patients and physicians alike. Flexible scheduling should be something that is on the table for both men and women who are trying to balance being full-time parents and full-time surgeons. We need to create an environment in which it is okay for you to spend 10 years instead of 6 as an assistant professor because you are also a young parent, and it will not count against you when you come up for promotion.
Dr. Culligan: I agree with you, Catherine. Full “Professor” is a nice title, but it means time away from family and a lot of other things. Each of us has to decide whether it is worth it, especially since it often does not come with any extra money.
Dr. Huber: A question on a recent survey of residents asked, “Do you see yourself going into private practice or academic medicine when you’ve completed your residency?” When I was a resident, everyone wanted to go into academic medicine, but now it seems like more and more residents have their sights set on private practice because that is where they see the opportunities to create work-life balance.
In the academic world, you have to try to get a promotion in X number of years, and get X number of publications, and be a great teacher, doctor, and administrator all at the same time. I am wondering if we are going to start seeing more and more residents and fellows going into private or hospital-owned practice where there aren’t those added expectations.
Dr. Rardin: I agree, and we are back to what we said in the beginning about doing an honest assessment of what is meaningful and important. We are all trained to try to reach for that shiny brass ring, but do we really want that brass ring? Will it be an asset or a hindrance once we get it? It is okay to be honest and say, “I really don’t want that promotion. I would rather spend more time with my family.” ●