William Pirl, MD, MPH, FACLP, FAPOS

Editor’s note: Career Choices features a psychiatry resident/fellow interviewing a psychiatrist about why he or she has chosen a specific career path. The goal is to inform trainees about the various psychiatric career options, and to give them a feel for the pros and cons of the various paths.

In this Career Choices, Saeed Ahmed, MD, Addiction Psychiatry Fellow at Boston University, talked with William Pirl, MD, MPH, FACLP, FAPOS. Dr. Pirl is Associate Professor, Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School. He joined Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in 2018 as Vice Chair for Psychosocial Oncology, Department of Psychosocial Oncology and Palliative Care. He is a past president of the American Psychosocial Oncology Society and North American Associate Editor for the journal Psycho-Oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What made you choose the psychiatric oncology track, and how did your training lead you towards this path?

Dr. Pirl: I went to medical school thinking that I wanted to be a psychiatrist. However, I was really drawn to internal medicine, especially the process of sorting through medical differential diagnoses. I was deciding between applying for residency in medicine or psychiatry when I did an elective rotation in consultation-liaison (CL) psychiatry. Consultation-liaison psychiatry combined both medicine and psychiatry, which is exactly what I wanted to do. After residency, I wanted to do a CL fellowship outside of Boston, which is where I had done all of my medical education and training. One of my residency advisors suggested Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, and I ended up going there. On the first day of fellowship, I realized that I’d only be working with cancer over that year, which I had not really thought about beforehand. Luckily, I loved it, and over the year I realized that the work had tremendous impact and meaning.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the pros and cons of working in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Things that I think are pros might be cons for some people. Consults in psychiatric oncology tend to be more relationship-based than they might be in other CL subspecialties. Oncology clinicians want to know who they are referring their patients to, and they are used to team-based care. If you like practicing as part of a multidisciplinary team, this is a pro.

Psychiatric oncology has more focus on existential issues, which interests me more than some other things in psychiatry. Bearing witness to so much tragedy can be a con at times, but psychiatrists who do this work learn ways to manage this within themselves. Psychiatric oncology also offers many experiences where you can see how much impact you make. It’s rewarding to see results and get positive feedback from patients and their families.

Continue to: Lastly, this is...

Lastly, this is a historic time in oncology. Over the last 15 years, things are happening that I never thought I would live to see. Some patients who 10 or 15 years ago would have had an expected survival of 6 to 9 months are now living years. We are now at a point where we might not actually know a patient’s prognosis, which introduces a whole other layer of uncertainty in cancer. Working as a psychiatrist during this time of rapidly evolving care is amazing. Cancer care will look very different over the next decade.

Dr. Ahmed: Based on your personal experience, what should one consider when choosing a psychiatric oncology program?

Dr. Pirl: I trained in a time before CL was a certified subspecialty of psychiatry. At that time, programs could focus solely on cancer, which cannot be done now. Trainees need to have broader training in certified fellowships. If someone knows that they are interested in psychiatric oncology, there are 2 programs that they should consider: the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute track of the Brigham and Women’s Hospital CL fellowship, and the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/New York Hospital CL fellowship. However, completing a CL fellowship will give someone the skills to do this work, even though they may not know all of the cancer content yet.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the career options and work settings in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: There are many factors that make it difficult for psychiatrist to have a psychiatric oncology private practice. The amount of late cancellations and no-shows because of illness makes it hard to do this work without some institutional subsidy. Also, being able to communicate and work as a team with oncology providers is much easier if you are in the same place. Most psychiatrists who do psychiatric oncology work in a cancer center or hospital. Practice settings at those places include both inpatient and outpatient work. There is also a shortage of psychiatrists doing this work, which makes it easier to get a job and to advance into leadership roles.

Continue to: Dr. Ahmed...

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the challenges in working in this field?

Dr. Pirl: One challenge is figuring out how to make sure you have income doing something that is not financially viable on its own. This is why most people work for cancer centers or hospitals and have some institutional subsidy for their work. Another challenge is access to care. There are not enough psychiatric resources for all the people with cancer who need them. Traditional referral-based models are getting harder and harder to manage. I think the emotional aspects of the work can also be challenging at times.

Dr. Ahmed: Where do you see the field going?

Dr. Pirl: Psychosocial care is now considered part of quality cancer care, and regulations require cancer centers to do certain aspects of it. This is leading to clinical growth and more integration into oncology. However, I am worried that we are not having enough psychiatry residents choose to do CL and/or psychiatric oncology. Some trainees are choosing to do a palliative care fellowship instead. When those trainees tell me why they want to do palliative care, I say that I do all of that and actually have much more time to do it because I am not managing constipation and vent settings. We need to do a better job of making trainees more aware of psychiatric oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What advice do you have for those contemplating a career in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Please join the field. There is a shortage of psychiatrists who do this work, which is ironically one of the best and most meaningful jobs in psychiatry.

Editor’s note: Career Choices features a psychiatry resident/fellow interviewing a psychiatrist about why he or she has chosen a specific career path. The goal is to inform trainees about the various psychiatric career options, and to give them a feel for the pros and cons of the various paths.

In this Career Choices, Saeed Ahmed, MD, Addiction Psychiatry Fellow at Boston University, talked with William Pirl, MD, MPH, FACLP, FAPOS. Dr. Pirl is Associate Professor, Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School. He joined Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in 2018 as Vice Chair for Psychosocial Oncology, Department of Psychosocial Oncology and Palliative Care. He is a past president of the American Psychosocial Oncology Society and North American Associate Editor for the journal Psycho-Oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What made you choose the psychiatric oncology track, and how did your training lead you towards this path?

Dr. Pirl: I went to medical school thinking that I wanted to be a psychiatrist. However, I was really drawn to internal medicine, especially the process of sorting through medical differential diagnoses. I was deciding between applying for residency in medicine or psychiatry when I did an elective rotation in consultation-liaison (CL) psychiatry. Consultation-liaison psychiatry combined both medicine and psychiatry, which is exactly what I wanted to do. After residency, I wanted to do a CL fellowship outside of Boston, which is where I had done all of my medical education and training. One of my residency advisors suggested Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, and I ended up going there. On the first day of fellowship, I realized that I’d only be working with cancer over that year, which I had not really thought about beforehand. Luckily, I loved it, and over the year I realized that the work had tremendous impact and meaning.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the pros and cons of working in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Things that I think are pros might be cons for some people. Consults in psychiatric oncology tend to be more relationship-based than they might be in other CL subspecialties. Oncology clinicians want to know who they are referring their patients to, and they are used to team-based care. If you like practicing as part of a multidisciplinary team, this is a pro.

Psychiatric oncology has more focus on existential issues, which interests me more than some other things in psychiatry. Bearing witness to so much tragedy can be a con at times, but psychiatrists who do this work learn ways to manage this within themselves. Psychiatric oncology also offers many experiences where you can see how much impact you make. It’s rewarding to see results and get positive feedback from patients and their families.

Continue to: Lastly, this is...

Lastly, this is a historic time in oncology. Over the last 15 years, things are happening that I never thought I would live to see. Some patients who 10 or 15 years ago would have had an expected survival of 6 to 9 months are now living years. We are now at a point where we might not actually know a patient’s prognosis, which introduces a whole other layer of uncertainty in cancer. Working as a psychiatrist during this time of rapidly evolving care is amazing. Cancer care will look very different over the next decade.

Dr. Ahmed: Based on your personal experience, what should one consider when choosing a psychiatric oncology program?

Dr. Pirl: I trained in a time before CL was a certified subspecialty of psychiatry. At that time, programs could focus solely on cancer, which cannot be done now. Trainees need to have broader training in certified fellowships. If someone knows that they are interested in psychiatric oncology, there are 2 programs that they should consider: the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute track of the Brigham and Women’s Hospital CL fellowship, and the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/New York Hospital CL fellowship. However, completing a CL fellowship will give someone the skills to do this work, even though they may not know all of the cancer content yet.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the career options and work settings in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: There are many factors that make it difficult for psychiatrist to have a psychiatric oncology private practice. The amount of late cancellations and no-shows because of illness makes it hard to do this work without some institutional subsidy. Also, being able to communicate and work as a team with oncology providers is much easier if you are in the same place. Most psychiatrists who do psychiatric oncology work in a cancer center or hospital. Practice settings at those places include both inpatient and outpatient work. There is also a shortage of psychiatrists doing this work, which makes it easier to get a job and to advance into leadership roles.

Continue to: Dr. Ahmed...

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the challenges in working in this field?

Dr. Pirl: One challenge is figuring out how to make sure you have income doing something that is not financially viable on its own. This is why most people work for cancer centers or hospitals and have some institutional subsidy for their work. Another challenge is access to care. There are not enough psychiatric resources for all the people with cancer who need them. Traditional referral-based models are getting harder and harder to manage. I think the emotional aspects of the work can also be challenging at times.

Dr. Ahmed: Where do you see the field going?

Dr. Pirl: Psychosocial care is now considered part of quality cancer care, and regulations require cancer centers to do certain aspects of it. This is leading to clinical growth and more integration into oncology. However, I am worried that we are not having enough psychiatry residents choose to do CL and/or psychiatric oncology. Some trainees are choosing to do a palliative care fellowship instead. When those trainees tell me why they want to do palliative care, I say that I do all of that and actually have much more time to do it because I am not managing constipation and vent settings. We need to do a better job of making trainees more aware of psychiatric oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What advice do you have for those contemplating a career in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Please join the field. There is a shortage of psychiatrists who do this work, which is ironically one of the best and most meaningful jobs in psychiatry.

Editor’s note: Career Choices features a psychiatry resident/fellow interviewing a psychiatrist about why he or she has chosen a specific career path. The goal is to inform trainees about the various psychiatric career options, and to give them a feel for the pros and cons of the various paths.

In this Career Choices, Saeed Ahmed, MD, Addiction Psychiatry Fellow at Boston University, talked with William Pirl, MD, MPH, FACLP, FAPOS. Dr. Pirl is Associate Professor, Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School. He joined Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in 2018 as Vice Chair for Psychosocial Oncology, Department of Psychosocial Oncology and Palliative Care. He is a past president of the American Psychosocial Oncology Society and North American Associate Editor for the journal Psycho-Oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What made you choose the psychiatric oncology track, and how did your training lead you towards this path?

Dr. Pirl: I went to medical school thinking that I wanted to be a psychiatrist. However, I was really drawn to internal medicine, especially the process of sorting through medical differential diagnoses. I was deciding between applying for residency in medicine or psychiatry when I did an elective rotation in consultation-liaison (CL) psychiatry. Consultation-liaison psychiatry combined both medicine and psychiatry, which is exactly what I wanted to do. After residency, I wanted to do a CL fellowship outside of Boston, which is where I had done all of my medical education and training. One of my residency advisors suggested Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, and I ended up going there. On the first day of fellowship, I realized that I’d only be working with cancer over that year, which I had not really thought about beforehand. Luckily, I loved it, and over the year I realized that the work had tremendous impact and meaning.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the pros and cons of working in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Things that I think are pros might be cons for some people. Consults in psychiatric oncology tend to be more relationship-based than they might be in other CL subspecialties. Oncology clinicians want to know who they are referring their patients to, and they are used to team-based care. If you like practicing as part of a multidisciplinary team, this is a pro.

Psychiatric oncology has more focus on existential issues, which interests me more than some other things in psychiatry. Bearing witness to so much tragedy can be a con at times, but psychiatrists who do this work learn ways to manage this within themselves. Psychiatric oncology also offers many experiences where you can see how much impact you make. It’s rewarding to see results and get positive feedback from patients and their families.

Continue to: Lastly, this is...

Lastly, this is a historic time in oncology. Over the last 15 years, things are happening that I never thought I would live to see. Some patients who 10 or 15 years ago would have had an expected survival of 6 to 9 months are now living years. We are now at a point where we might not actually know a patient’s prognosis, which introduces a whole other layer of uncertainty in cancer. Working as a psychiatrist during this time of rapidly evolving care is amazing. Cancer care will look very different over the next decade.

Dr. Ahmed: Based on your personal experience, what should one consider when choosing a psychiatric oncology program?

Dr. Pirl: I trained in a time before CL was a certified subspecialty of psychiatry. At that time, programs could focus solely on cancer, which cannot be done now. Trainees need to have broader training in certified fellowships. If someone knows that they are interested in psychiatric oncology, there are 2 programs that they should consider: the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute track of the Brigham and Women’s Hospital CL fellowship, and the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/New York Hospital CL fellowship. However, completing a CL fellowship will give someone the skills to do this work, even though they may not know all of the cancer content yet.

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the career options and work settings in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: There are many factors that make it difficult for psychiatrist to have a psychiatric oncology private practice. The amount of late cancellations and no-shows because of illness makes it hard to do this work without some institutional subsidy. Also, being able to communicate and work as a team with oncology providers is much easier if you are in the same place. Most psychiatrists who do psychiatric oncology work in a cancer center or hospital. Practice settings at those places include both inpatient and outpatient work. There is also a shortage of psychiatrists doing this work, which makes it easier to get a job and to advance into leadership roles.

Continue to: Dr. Ahmed...

Dr. Ahmed: What are some of the challenges in working in this field?

Dr. Pirl: One challenge is figuring out how to make sure you have income doing something that is not financially viable on its own. This is why most people work for cancer centers or hospitals and have some institutional subsidy for their work. Another challenge is access to care. There are not enough psychiatric resources for all the people with cancer who need them. Traditional referral-based models are getting harder and harder to manage. I think the emotional aspects of the work can also be challenging at times.

Dr. Ahmed: Where do you see the field going?

Dr. Pirl: Psychosocial care is now considered part of quality cancer care, and regulations require cancer centers to do certain aspects of it. This is leading to clinical growth and more integration into oncology. However, I am worried that we are not having enough psychiatry residents choose to do CL and/or psychiatric oncology. Some trainees are choosing to do a palliative care fellowship instead. When those trainees tell me why they want to do palliative care, I say that I do all of that and actually have much more time to do it because I am not managing constipation and vent settings. We need to do a better job of making trainees more aware of psychiatric oncology.

Dr. Ahmed: What advice do you have for those contemplating a career in psychiatric oncology?

Dr. Pirl: Please join the field. There is a shortage of psychiatrists who do this work, which is ironically one of the best and most meaningful jobs in psychiatry.