The importance of education
Sheila, your comments on this from the patient perspective are so important. How important is the education piece, and how do you manage the fear of side effects vs actually managing the side effects that might be caused by the treatment you’re taking?
Ms. Pettiford: Thank you for that question. I really think it’s a dance. It’s a dance between the patient and the health care team. Yes, education is absolutely important. However, the health care professionals have to establish a relationship of trust with the patient. My own circumstances were that – and I was very fortunate in that my oncologist, who I chose just by looking and not by a recommendation – I did find an oncologist who listened to me.
When it came time for me to deal with a new medication, the education she provided me was sufficient because of the fact that there was a lot of listening that had gone on prior to the new medicine being given to me. I trusted what I was hearing, and it felt like there was a balanced situation that came about from what I was being told. I could look it up, too.
There still is that part of the patient who will be participating in the process, as well. They can still look up things, and that’s one of the downfalls of the information age we are in. It is a dance. I just want to go back to that. There’s a dance between the patient and the health care providers.
Dr. Rugo: Julia, from the patient’s side, how do you balance the benefits you might get from a treatment versus the side effects and how best to manage them?
Ms. Maués: I think it’s interesting that when we talk with our doctors, and especially when we read about a certain treatment, the attention is focused on the very severe and unlikely side effects that a drug has. We don’t talk as much about the side effects that are most likely to happen and will affect us but may not be life threatening.
Especially for those of us with metastatic cancer who are going to ideally be on a drug for a very long time, we’re then faced with low-grade nausea for the rest of our lives. That’s not okay either, right? I think it’s important to talk about all of the levels of toxicities and everything that can be done to avoid this.
Communication is key
Ms. Pettiford: I just want to add something that Dr. Cardoso said about monitoring that is absolutely important. We’re in a day and time when it’s very difficult to get someone on the telephone, but we do have digital charts and other ways that monitoring can take place. I was at a large teaching university, and I had to go monthly for my treatments. Every month, there were questions that were asked about my life and my condition. I could always get in contact with somebody through the digital chart.
Dr. Rugo: That’s an incredibly important comment, Sheila, about communication and how patients can feel like they have someone to go to in real time who can help manage things. Fatima, I’m interested in your comment on that.
Also, just to go to the next step, which is that when we see data reported on clinical trials and how the agent we’ve added or substituted is better than the standard, the toxicity tables are side effects that occur in at least 10% or more patients and sometimes even 20%. Then they’re graded, where often the division is grade 3 or greater. That may not actually reflect much about what the individual patient experience is. How do we interpret these data? Communication and interpretation?
Dr. Cardoso: Absolutely. I always call attention that perhaps, since we focus so much on grade 3 and 4 [side effects], that is the reason why we don’t see in the usual reporting differences quality of life between treatments. Quality of life is affected also significantly by grade 2 side effects. Or, like Julia was mentioning, even grade 1, if they are persistent, will eventually affect your quality of life.
Sometimes, like I was saying, don’t underestimate – it’s a little bit like that. We focus on explaining, “Look, this new immunotherapy can give you all these different side effects.” But then we forget to say: “Oh, by the way, it may also give you some nausea.” Actually, the nausea will affect the patient’s quality of life. I think that’s why it is so important to balance the way we provide the information.
I would like also to take on what Sheila said that sometimes too much information is not very helpful. That’s why sometimes we have to go stepwise. The first time you’re about to start the treatment, advise [the patient] on the most frequent side effects. Later on, you have time to say: “Okay, by the way, this can also give a rare side effect. This is what you should look for. If you have it, please contact your health care team.”
I think the most difficult part, at least from my experience, is for patients to understand what is really a sign of a severe side effect and what is normal for that type of treatment. Some of the new ways of communicating, like using some patient-reported outcome (PRO) apps, actually help the patient by saying, “This that you are feeling is normal. It can wait for your next appointment. This that you are feeling, it’s better if you try to reach your health care team right away. Or, this is an urgent thing and go to the emergency room near you.”
For this kind of triage, there are now new apps that can help. I think this is the most difficult part because when you are a patient, you don’t know if what you are feeling is actually a sign of something very severe or if it’s normal for the type of treatment you are receiving.
Dr. Rugo: I think that’s so important, and these new PRO apps may help with this. Of course, nothing substitutes for talking in the end if you’re confused or it doesn’t fit into whatever’s in that paradigm. I think it’s important.