This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Rachel S. Rubin, MD: I’m Dr. Rachel Rubin, urologist and sexual medicine specialist in the Washington, DC, area. We are coming to you live from the Mayo Clinic Urology Conference in Maui, Hawaii, with the world’s leading experts in men’s health, sexual health, and quality of life. I’m bringing in Dr. Allen Morey from the North Dallas area, one of the world’s leading experts in reconstructive urology. He deals with all things urinary incontinence, penile curvature, and sexual health.
Dr. Morey said something at this conference that really put my chin on the floor. He said, So, Dr. Morey, tell us more about why you made that comment and about the incontinence in men that you deal with all the time.
Allen F. Morey, MD: For many years, I’ve worked at cancer centers where, through the various treatments for prostate cancer, the men suffered from urinary incontinence and we put a lot of artificial urinary sphincters in those patients. I had one patient who asked, “Why do I keep having this erosion?” Of course, the erosion is where the cuff compresses the tissue surrounding the urethra, and the tissue gives way, leaving a hole in the urethra. I looked at him and noticed that he was pale. And I thought, Let me check his testosterone level. We started checking it on everybody who had this problem, and sure enough, the ones who had the cup erosion — who had the atrophic tissue around the urethra — most of them had low testosterone levels. Some of this was due to the cancer treatment, but in other men, it was just due to old age.
We started thinking that this is a causal relationship. And we tested it. I had a fellow who was a board-certified pathologist before becoming a urologist. He obtained some specimens from the urethra and did very sophisticated, elegant stains on that tissue. We found that it’s just erectile tissue surrounding the urethra. That’s why I call it a sex organ. I tell my patients, “When you are a teenager, this tissue is thin, like on your pinky finger. As you get older, it becomes thicker. And then as you get even older, and you may be having cancer treatment, that tissue is gone.” You can show them your little finger; it’s about that size. All the meat is off the bone. There’s nothing left protecting the urinary mucosa from the device.
That’s why it’s important to maintain the optimal health of those tissues and for them to remain dry. Because let’s face it: Urinary incontinence is a horrible quality of life. These are my happiest patients when we fix it. Before that, when they go on vacation, they have a separate suitcase filled with diapers. They can’t go anywhere. They can’t do anything. When they become incontinent after the prostatectomy, they gain weight. And when you put in the device to treat it, they lose weight and you can track it. The urinary incontinence patients really suffer. And we need to consider the medical optimization of those patients.
Dr. Rubin: It’s so important, and I love how analogous this is to our female patients. We know that incontinence is devastating to our female patients as well, and there’s a lot of hope. As we get older we start to pee every time we cough, laugh, or sneeze. Men are a little more bothered by it when it happens; they don’t expect it. Among women, it’s thought of as normal, but it’s not normal. There is so much we can do to help these patients, ranging from conservative treatment to surgical therapies.
The connection between hormones and urethral health is true on the female side as well. As you go through menopause, the urethral tissue thins out, gets dry, gets irritated, and can cause worsening incontinence, pain with sex, and genital urinary syndrome of menopause. It’s really important.
For our primary care doctors, how should we talk about stress incontinence in men? How do we diagnose it?
Dr. Morey: It’s easy to diagnose. Just do a quick history. Find out how many pads a day they are using. You have to ask the question, and then you have them stand up and look inside their underwear. You’ll see what kind of pad they are wearing. Is it just a shield or are they actually wearing full diapers? Then I have them do a standing cough test. I stand off to the side, holding a couple of towels, and have the patient cough four times. I can tell if it’s a full stream or just a couple of drops. Is it nothing but they are wearing a pad? You match up what you see with their experience, and in an instant it tells you how severe their problem is and it helps you direct them on to further treatment, because many patients have treatment fatigue. They’ve already been through the system. They have really suffered and they don’t know which way to go. They don’t know what’s available.
Dr. Rubin: On the female side, we have pelvic floor physical therapy. We have pads and devices that you can wear, and pessaries. We have surgical options, like bulking agents into the urethra as well as urethral slings, which can be quite helpful for women. So there’s a lot of hope out there for women, and from what I learned from you at this conference, there’s a lot of hope for men as well. So talk us through treatment, from conservative to surgical options.
Dr. Morey: There hasn’t been much innovation in male incontinence treatment over the past few decades, but we’re starting to see signs of new products appearing on the horizon, so I’m very optimistic that in the next 5 or 10 years, we’ll have more. But right now it comes down to slings and artificial sphincters, which are devices with little pumps and hydraulics, and they’re very good. But they’ve been around for 50 years, and they have this other potential risk factor of the erosion of the tissue.
We don’t have a pill that we can give the patient to tighten up those muscles. We can help them with overactive bladder. But maybe the hormonal influence is a way to optimize the health of the tissue so that these surgical treatments can really deliver the best outcomes. And as I always say, and having treated so many of these patients, it’s really a game of millimeters — how much coaptation you get. If you’re off by the slightest amount, that’s an unhappy patient. So it doesn’t take much to make it a lot better.
Dr. Rubin: There’s so much hope for our patients, and this can really have an effect on sexual health. You know the benefits you see in their quality of life and sexual health when you can stop leakage.
Dr. Morey: I always take care of the waterworks first. Many of the men have both urinary problems and erectile problems. Nobody feels sexy when they’re leaking urine all over their partner. So first we take care of that. And then, in the motivated younger patients, we bring them back and talk to them about potentially having a second operation.
Dr. Rubin: And so similarly, in women with urinary incontinence, it can have a major impact on sexual health — how they show up and how they talk to their partner. So, it is really important for our primary care docs to talk to patients about urinary incontinence and not just say, “Oh, well, you’re getting older. There’s nothing that you can do.” There’s actually no age at which there is nothing that we can do. And it’s really important to refer patients to those urologists who have extra training in incontinence and sexual health, because we do care about these quality-of-life measures and there is a lot we can do, ranging from conservative to more invasive treatments. But patients really should have options.
Dr. Morey: I heard during this meeting that urinary incontinence was the number-one source of treatment regret among patients who had their prostate treated for cancer. So, this is a really big deal for our patients. And it impacts wellness, quality of life, and overall well-being.
Dr. Rubin: When we are counseling patients for cancer surgeries or cancer treatments such as radiation therapy, it’s really hard for the patients who have never had urinary incontinence to imagine what that might be like. When you’re telling them they could have a stroke or a heart attack, or they could have erectile dysfunction or urinary incontinence, it all sounds similar to them. It could happen to someone else. It’s very hard to truly counsel patients on these quality-of-life issues that they’ve never encountered before.
Dr. Morey: We have found that it takes a long time for patients to get into our office for treatment, and it’s unbelievable — often 5 years in diapers before they find us.
Dr. Rubin: Hopefully videos like this will teach our docs and our patients that there is hope out there, that you don’t need to wait through years of suffering from incontinence. So, how does somebody find a reconstructive urologist or a sexual medicine urologist?
Dr. Morey: There are a couple of good websites out there, such as fixincontinence.com and edcure.org. The device manufacturers have pretty good information for patients.
Dr. Rubin: The Sexual Medicine Society of North America (SMSNA) has a great find-a-provider website, which provides a list of urologists who are trained in both sexual health and urinary incontinence, because they both matter. Our patients deeply care about these issues.
Rachel S. Rubin, MD, has disclosed the following relevant financial relationships: Serve(d) as a speaker for Sprout; received research grant from Maternal Medical; received income in an amount equal to or greater than $250 from Absorption Pharmaceuticals, GSK, Endo.
A version of this article appeared on Medscape.com.